Would NRA proposal help curb gun violence in schools?
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The National Rifle Association executive vice president Wayne LaPierre, gestures during a news conference in response to the Connecticut school shooting on Friday, Dec. 21, 2012 in Washington. The nation's largest gun-rights lobby is calling for armed police officers to be posted in every American school to stop the next killer "waiting in the wings." (AP Photo/ Evan Vucci)
After a weeklong silence since the Connecticut school shootings, the National Rifle Association on Friday called for a program to arm and train guards in schools as the best way to protect children from gun violence. The group blamed video games, the news media and lax law enforcement – but not guns – for a recent rash of mass shootings.
It offered no new proposals to restrict firearms.
“The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” said Wayne LaPierre, the N.R.A.’s vice president, at a packed media event was interrupted twice by protesters demanding tougher gun controls.
Angry and combative, LaPierre, who has led the N.R.A.’s operations for two decades, complained that the news media had unfairly “demonized gun owners,” and he called the makers of violent video games “a callous, corrupt and corrupting shadow industry that sells, and sows, violence against its own people.”
Shock over the Connecticut shootings has spurred wide calls for tighter gun control measures, with even some pro-gun lawmakers aligned with the N.R.A. saying that they were rethinking their positions. With the N.R.A. unusually quiet since the shootings, gun control supporters and opponents had looked to Friday’s event as a sign of how the nation’s largest and best-known gun lobby would respond and whether it would pledge cooperation with the White House and lawmakers seeking new actions.
Read the story linked above for more details. What do you think of the NRA proposal? Would it help curb violent incidents in the nation’s schools?
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In 1999 there was an armed security guard at Columbine High School and a second one nearby. They didn’t stop the violence.
LaPierre had a chance to make a positive contribution to our national discussion on violence in our schools. He did just the opposite and damaged the image of the NRA in the process.
Greer doesn’t get it. Liberals don’t “get it”. Mike in the following video “gets it”.
“Colorado Massacre VS. Chicago Violence”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEV8jUlAKI8
Please explain how I don’t “get it”. There was, indeed, an armed security guard at Columbine. He was totally ineffective at stopping the violence. Now, please explain why the NRA approach will work.
Greer: The NRA did not create any school massacre. You don’t get it.
Someone trained and armed to meet a threat with equal force would help.
It works at Collin’s Credit Union on First Ave. It works at Hy-Vee in the evenings. C.R. won’t hold a Council meeting without a LEO present, even though several council members conceal carry themselves.
Replace retiring school custodians with Vetrans trained as first response security. A win win except for the bad guy. Doesn’t cost 56k per school then.
Just removing the Gun Free Zone signs would be a smart start.
Add signs that announce we protect our kids at all cost or that punishment doubles for killing on school properties.
Just like work zone speeding fines, double the penalty for school shootings.
Wait, we give life terms for murder. hmmm, wonder what we need next?
Make security issues a classified secret. Stop informing killers where they will meet little or no resistance.
Quit giving the successful killers all the publicity and fame. If their names are never mentioned and no one cares to read their manifestos or the POTUS isn’t going to change his schedule and come to town then they don’t gain anything from taking others with them. Quit rewarding them with coverage.
Mental illness is the root cause. Instead of shutting down the Abbe Center maybe we need to buid on to it. Believe teachers when they say a student is showing violent propensities and make mental health checks as standard as hearing tests. Obamacare is the solution to all health care issues so all the mentally ill will be treated and cured soon. And the POTUS is giving it to us, it doesn’t cost a dime.
Jay,
Rampage killers are mostly suicidal. They have no intention of being around to soak up all that publicity. And because they are suicidal, armed security guards and teachers and staff carrying concealed weapons isn’t going to stop them either. They don’t care.
But what likely will happen is that these shooters will zero in on adults and take them out before they can stop their carefully planned and orchestrated self immolation
“Would it help curb violent incidents in the nation’s schools?” It would probably cause an increase in arrests for “typical” school violence such as fistfighting, along with nonviolent crime like drug dealing or illegal smoking. That would probably be a good thing, but I am skeptical that it would prevent or minimize suicidal-gunman incidents. If you have someone so disturbed that he is determined to kill himself and take as many bystanders as he can with him, he is going to have no reservations about simply making the facility cop his first victim.
There was an armed security guard on duty at Columbine when the shootings there happened, and another patrol cop within sight of the campus. Both exchanged fire with one of the shooters but didn’t hit him, possibly because the officers were at a range disadvantage, having to face someone with a rifle while armed only with pistols.
That’s why I don’t think armed security guards/police in the school are the best solution.
That is why I favor lifting the ban on adults who have concealed carry permits being allowed to do so in the school. That way, a potential mass shooter doesn’t know who is packing, so they can’t just shoot them first.
This the reason concealed carry has had the effect of reducing violent crime rates in states where it has been tried. Bad guys not knowing who is or is not packing is a deterrent. They either try to find situations where they know the victim is unarmed (which is why there was a rash of attacks on tourists in marked rental cars in Florida in the early days of CCW), switch to property crimes, or leave for another state that doesn’t have concealed carry.
In addition to this factor, there is another benefit. Spree killers try to kill as many people as possible before the police show up so as to attract media attention and become famous before they are either shot, kill themself or allow themselves to be taken into custody. Each time a spree killer succeeds in doing this, it encourages potential copycat killers by showing how easy it is to do the same thing. But if we change the situation to one where someone attempting a spree killing is likely to get shot by or forced to surrender to an armed teacher or administrator before they can kill many people, they do not get the media attention or satisfaction they seek.
Add to that the factor that a teacher inside the building is definitely more motivated to stop the crime in progress than a cop or security guard outside the building, and it’s an open and shut case.
“. . . concealed carry has had the effect of reducing violet crime rates in states . . . ” That claim is not all that easy to document and is questionable at best.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/do-concealed-weapon-laws-result-in-less-crime/2012/12/16/e80a5d7e-47c9-11e2-ad54-580638ede391_blog.html
Cedric: I lived in Washington D.C. when handguns were “outlawed”. Five hundred people per year died in the metro area. Washington became known as “The Murder Capital Of The World”. No doubt that lifting the ban contributed to less murders estimated at about 150 this year.
Yeah well I lived in DC as well when the murder rate was so high that most of them didn’t even make the “Police Beat”.
Hand guns were banned in 1976 but lax gun restrictions in Maryland and Virginia complicated matters quite a bit. Which, if you had been paying attention during the time you lived there you would know.
Murders spiked late 80s and early 90s as a result of the crack epidemic–which contributed to a spike natiionwide. When crack ceased to be a major drug problem, the DC murder rate dropped. There was no corresponding drop in Virginia or Maryland and certainly not in Baltimore. DC and Baltimore are similar in demographics and crime rates. DC, however, had much more rigorous restrictions on handguns and rifles
Refer “has DC’s Handgun Ban Prevented Bloodshed? CBS News 02/11/2009
Bell: Your disertation on Washington D.C. is pure bunk.
The “guns prevent crime” only makes sense when applied to rational criminals. While this premise could have vaiidity for career sociopaths who commit crimes mainly for tangible gain, it doesn’t apply to the critically disaffected, suicidal shooter who simply intends to wreak as much carnage as possible prior to his own demise. These people may care about publicity, but it is probably of zero concern to them that they won’t be around to survey the aftermath of their murderous rampages. Success on their terms is achieved by their own deaths.
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“The ‘guns prevent crime’ only makes sense when applied to rational criminals. While this premise could have vaiidity for career sociopaths who commit crimes mainly for tangible gain, it doesn’t apply to the critically disaffected, suicidal shooter who simply intends to wreak as much carnage as possible prior to his own demise.”
If you actually bothered to read what I wrote all the way through, you would see that I covered this already. If you make it so that they will be stopped before they can kill many people (which is what you yourself admit is their motivation) in a school, then they will be deterred and/or go elsewhere.
Galt,
I read through your post several times and I still can’t figure out where or how you dealt with the issue of deterrence when the shooter in question is hell bent on pulling a harder they come and doesn’t care
Besides that, given easy access to weapons like the AR-15 Bushmaster that was used in Newtown. wouldn’t anyone with a conceal carry appropriate weapon be outgunned?
Bottom line with regard to the Newtown shooting, the only sure prevention would have been for Nancy Lanza to have gotten rid of the guns she had in her basement. No guns, no shooting, nobody dead
A new idea borrowed from the Red Speed Jeep:
Take the 14 older Police Intercepters that do not have cameras in them out of service early and park them at our schools. We cannot afford to update them with cameras, as the red light/speed camera income is being directed into pension coffers, so use them for some good. Stick a bumper sticker on them that goes something like : “Hey Punk, my M16 aint in this trunk.”
Park them in front of the schools secured entry door and criminals won’t know whether the LEO is inside or not.
Have a couple LEOs walk through the schools at odd intervals and keep their schedules a secret.
It is time to get creative and come up with some deterents instead of continue a misguided witch hunt for the big bad gun that causes all harm.
Why are so many of these people promoting gun bans and stiff restrictions surrounded by armed security?
The NRA proposal is pathetic beyond belief.
“Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the Government take care of him; better take a closer look at the American Indian!”
Henry Ford
Please explain how this is relevant to the topic being discussed.
Must have hit a cord of truth………..
Ahart,
American Indians didn’t “let” the government take care of them. Check your history. American Indians are conquered peoples who were rounded up and dumped in reconcentration camps called “reservations”. Up until the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924, Native Americans were not considered citizens and could not vote or hold office. Even with the Citizenship Act, states were allowed to ignore Indian citizenship rights until 1948. Which means American Indians had less political leverage than African Americans living in Mississippi. Further, American Indians do not and never did live under “guardianship”. Reservations are and always have been considered soveriegn nations. This is what happens when people are forceably restricted to the poorest land with few resources, no political leverage, and treated as if they did not matter
Last time I checked, businessmen like Henry Ford were more than happy to round up all the government contracts they could get their hands on. Throw in tax breaks and infrastructure support and what you’ve got are bunch of posturing rugged individualists who are anything but rugged or individualists
The Ford Crown Victoria, by the way, is by far the most popular police car going. That’s lots and lots of government money going to Henry Ford’s company.
Next time you want to quote a dead anti-semitic supporter of Adolf Hitler as if his words were the Word of God, make sure ;you understand the context
Making schools a “gun free zone” hasn’t helped, so either post guards or let teachers be trained and carry concealed. That’s what’s stopped shooters so far in the past few years.
Didn’t stop the violence at Columbine. Please tell us where this strategy has worked.
Rich, you are right. A guard out side of the school didn’t stop Columbine. Guess what. The 1994 Assault Weapons Ban didn’t stop Columbine either.
Limiting magazine size or a certain type of weapon will not stop anything. Bad guys will simply use a different weapon.
Fisher
The Columbiine shooters were students at the school who had easy access to the weapons they used and were familiar with the interior layout of the school. They planned that attack for weeks and fully intended to go out in a blaze of glory by committing suicide when they ran out of ammunition. Which is what they did.
Google search turned up 31 school shootings since Columbine. Most were not rampage shootings but the result of criminal behavior on school property—robberies, muggings, assault, domestic disputes, workplace disputes, wrong place/wrong time, single targeted victim.
The number of actual rampage shootings was two high schools (Columbine 1999, Red Lake Senior High 2005), two grade schools (Amish Schoolhouse 2006, Sandy Hook 2012), two colleges (Virginia Tech 2007, Oikos University 2012).
Five of the six shooters committed suicide, one (Oikos University) was arrested.
I found this list on “A Timeline of Mass Shootings Since Columbine in the US” Aviva Shen 12/14/2012 ThinkProgressJustice
Wikipedia also has articles with timelines.
Worth noting is that since Columbine, school shootings are handled a lot differently. Police go in immediately, do a sweep. They no longer wait for the SWAT team. Such shootings are no longer handled as if they were hostage situations. All doors into schools are kept locked and students are monitored for any signs of potentially dangerous behavior.
An ever escalating arms race is not the answer. Restricting access to guns is.
Australia used to have mass shootings. That stopped after the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996. Assault weapons were banned. Totally. Confiscated. Buy back. Not allowed. Further, the ban was uniform nationwide. In the decade prior to Port Arthur there had been 11 mass shootings. In the 16 years since, there have been none. Further, the murder rate dropped by 40%
“That’s what’s stopped shooters . . . ” I’m prepared to accept that if you can provide some credible documentation/studies/statistics. Otherwise it’s just a claim with zero mass.
Here’s an example in black and white. The teacher actually ran to his car to retrieve the firearm.
http://tinyurl.com/d69qtqm
Nice try, Abernathy, but that’s not what happened.
The school shooting in question was Pearl High School, Pearl Mississippi 1997. Two dead, seven injured. The shooter, Luke Woodham, was a 16 year old student at the school who first murdered his mother and then drove to the school and shot his girl friend and another student dead. He shot and injured 7 more students, then left the building. The assistant principle, Joel Myrick, cornered him in the parking lot as he tried to drive away. Woodham had targeted specific people he was mad at and attempted to escape when he ran out of ammunition.
There have only been a handful of instances where an armed bystander has tried to confront and stop a rampage shooter. They mostly end up dead.
“The ‘guns prevent crime’ only makes sense when applied to rational criminals. While this premise could have vaiidity for career sociopaths who commit crimes mainly for tangible gain, it doesn’t apply to the critically disaffected, suicidal shooter who simply intends to wreak as much carnage as possible prior to his own demise.”
If you actually bothered to read what I wrote all the way through, you would see that I covered this already. If you make it so that they will be stopped before they can kill many people (which is what you yourself admit is their motivation) in a school, then they will be deterred and/or go elsewhere.
You left out the reason Myrick didn’t stop woodham until he got to the parking lot. Myrick was not carrying his gun; he had to go out to his truck to retrieve it. It was and is illegal to carry a loaded gun on school property according to the Gun Free School Zones Act. Indeed, if the gun in Myrick’s truck was loaded, he was techinically in violation of the act. Myrick claimed that the only reason his gun was in his truck is because he had been to a shooting range over the weekend and forgotten to take it out when he got home.
So claiming that having a gun did not allow him to stop Woodham is a specious argument at best. Woodham had already killed his mother at home and had driven to the school. Myrick prevented him from leaving the school. Had he left, Woodham could have gone on to kill more people. Had Myrick been concealed carrying in the school, he may have been able to prevent one or more of the killings. Thanks to the efforts of gun grabbers like yourself, he did not have a chance to do this. It shows a lot of nerve as well as intellectual dishonesty to then turn around and claim that the presence of guns doesn’t stop mass shootings. But then that’s what we’ve come to expect from you here.
Galt,
I never said that having a gun did not allow Myrick to stop a 16 year old kid.
Point being is that there is no way to know if Myrick could have been stopped him before he killed those two girls.
I remember the incident. The kid was angry because the two girls he targeted had snubbed him. In order to stop him, the assistant principal would have had to have been in the same room and he wasn’t. Further, the police report indicated that there was no reason to think that the kid was going to kill anyone else. He killed the three people he was mad at (his mother and the two girls) and that was that. The boy used a rifle that belonged to his father and was in the house.
Easy access, teenaged boy with rejection and impulse control problems. Bang. You’re dead
I’ve managed to find two instances, only two, where a rampage shooter was actually stopped in the middle of a rampage while he was still capable of killling people. In the one the shooter was killed by a former police officer; in the other by a marine. Evidence indicates that the average person without proper training and experience–which they very likely are not going to have–had best get out of the way. Confronting a well armed rampage shooter, if you don’t know what you are doing, is a good way to end up dead
Real life ain’t the movies, you know
Just got around to reading the article you linked, John. Good stuff.
“Of course all the official government-media complex propaganda organs immediately went ballistic about guns with the shooting in Newtown, Connecticut. But there have been several incidents where school shootings were stopped by an armed civilian, but there would have been more if not for the stupid law that says schools should be zones where the right of self-defense is not respected.”
And yet Roberta either didn’t read this or just decided to plow through with her so-called arguments.
“Many of the 61 school shootings they’re spouting about in Propaganda Media could have been stopped cold if more teachers had been able to bring their weapons on to campus.
Some gun control believers are even using arguments that show they do not even check there own facts. One blogger asked whether his reader ‘had ever heard of a mass killing being stopped by the use of guns even once’.”
Wow, it sounds like Roberta is writing her posts from a script.
Angry and combative Wayne LaPierre jumped the shark
I watched him give his proposed solution and what I saw was a man on the verge of a major crack-up. Maybe last week’s mass murder was too much even for him.
He’s paid over a million a year to lobby for more and more and more and more guns. At what point is the body count going to get high enough. At what point is this man going to ever ask himself if the money is worth it.
Just prior to election 2012 Liberals is several cities threaten to riot, burn, and kill if Romney way elected. Twitter was on fire with thousands of threats to assasinate Mitt BEFORE election day.
This society has taught children to become very effective killers. More cops won’t stop the killing and neither will gun control. Liberals will never discuss the root causes for American violence.
Come on David, you may possibly help with ths discussion if you can simply get off the name calling. Can’t you? Why blame the “libs” for everything? Please try to answer the subject … can the NRA can help gun violence.
I think, Mr deasy, that the NRA has been extremely effective at enabling gun violence. Given LaPierre’s response to Newtown, I suspect that the NRA won’t be happy until every single person in the United States is carrying an assault weapon with a 90 round clip and wearing a bullet proof vest.
Here’s a link to Gun deaths per 100,000 population by country. Note that the USA is well up the list — just behind Mexico.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
Here’s a link to gun ownership per capita. Note that the USA is at the top of the list, even far above formerly war-torn Serbia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
In both cases the figures are a bit dated and may have changed to date but I doubt a lot.
If it comes from the NRA, I won’t waste a second reading it.
one more time, look at gun related homicides in england versus the united states. who is more dangerous the taliban or the NRA? the united states is a country of gun freaks, is it because we spend more on our defense that the next 17 countries combined. i wonder what percentage of spree killers were either in the military or wanted to be?
Mr Brown
I did a search. Apparently 7% of serial killers have a millitary background, but I couldn’t find any numbers for rampage killers
This from Psychology Today 3/20/2012
“Trail of Fears” Katherine Ramsland
“What we have learned about mass and spree murderers over the past half century is that they are typically quite ordinary. They usually have no criminal record. However, they deal poorly with life’s inherent unfairness, and might have suffered a serious disappointment that feels to them like the last straw. They let frustration fester into rage, with minor incidents being perceived as major offenses. Some stressor, such as a broken relationship, a grievous loss, sudden debt, or unemployment, can set a rampage in motion. Quite a few rampage killers have had military background”
She also notes “rigid personalities, coupled with depression and hostility”
I don’t, however, think that a millitary background is a useful indicator of homicidal potential. The overwhelming vast majority of people who’ve spent time in the military do not come home and commit murder. Same with mental illness. Quite a few rampage killers turned out to be mentally ill. The overwhelming vast majority of people with mental illness, however, don’t commit murder either.
Perhaps the best indicator might be severe depression coupled with an inability to handle disappointment coupled with a rigid personality coupled with a great deal of anger coupled with an overwhelming desire to commit suicide. Rampage killers never escape. They are most often killed by police or kill themselves. The few who have been taken alive were tackled when their guns jammed or they ran out of ammunition.
The most reliable common denominator is white, male, and access to guns
O.k……….so Roberta is attempting to blame ex military for the violence in America. Typically………………
Ahart, did you read what I actually wrote?
What I said was that a military background is not a useful indicator. The overwhelming vast majority of people who have served in the millitary do not commit murder.
Have a safe trip now, William.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberty
Origin of LIBERTY
Middle English, from Anglo-French liberté, from Latin libertat-, libertas, from liber free — more at liberal
First Known Use: 14th century
this is for all those who decry liberals and use the word as an epitaph, without liberals there would be no liberty and we would still be paying homage to royalty.
I don’t really like the idea of armed guards in all schools but in the world we live in today if we really want to protect the kids form this type of thing it may be necessary, no law is going to stop a nut intent on killing. If they can’t get a gun they will use what they can get, it isn’t the means that interests them it’s the result.
Deasy: I used to be a member of the NRA. They provide a lot of good info toward “gun safety” ect. The NRA is not the cause of gun violence in America. That AR15 didn’t magically get off the couch and wack twenty school kids. Who controls Chicago, Washington D.C. , California, and New York??? Who has the most crimes and why?
NO GOD-NO GOOD!!!
If UPS is going to hire armed guards for their trucks, then it’s obvious a common sense approach like that will work best.
http://tinyurl.com/cc3deyc
John you need to find more then this…have you ever been to or read up on East St Louis? This is the only place they are hiring trained armed guards!
East St. Louis has the highest crime rate in the United States (according to the FBI’s 100 most dangerous cities list). According to FBI’s data of 2007, its murder rate hit 101.9 per population of 100,000, surpassing that of cities such as Gary, Indiana (48.3 per pop. 100,000); New Orleans, Louisiana (37.6); Baltimore, Maryland (43.3); and Detroit, Michigan (47.3); as well as that of its neighbor St. Louis (37.2). FBI data shows East St. Louis’ rate of rape exceeded 250 per population of 100,000
Perhaps after the holiday break the Gazette could contact the principals of local schools and ask them their reaction to the most extreme proposal, that teachers in schools be armed, and publish a spectrum of response.
Cedric I will not pick on you individual, but rather use your post as an example.
The reason discussions of this type break down is because some insist on misrepresenting the ideas they disagree with.
The proposal is NOT that teachers is schools be armed. Your words. The idea is to ALLOW teachers that desire, the ability to carry a weapon.
These are two very different proposals
No one has presented a tangible non-emotional objection to this.
A neat exercise if for someone to play devils advocate at state all the ‘perceived’ objections.
I NEVER intentionally misrepresent anything whether I agree with it or not. I consider such dishonest and a lack of integrity. If there have been no proposals to make it a requirement that teachers be armed then I stand corrected. However there have been a number of proposals around the country in regard to this matter. Are you sure there are none that suggest requirement ? ( There is no “proposal pope” that we can look to. ) By the way, I suspect if it were voluntary the carrying of guns by teachers would be in the low single digits percentage-wise.
Yes, the NRA can help the problem, but not without first starting to finally face up to the problem they have seriously helped create. The NRA has been very simple minded in pushing their agenda. They don’t seem to be able to see “anything” in the future that they are helping destroy for our great country. Let’s hope the NRA members with some intellegence can now somehow get them back on track.
What will keep the armed guards and the people with concealed carrying permits from snapping and shooting everyone in sight?
Perhaps a “Class A License” could be created. Yearly class room and range training, yearly FBI background checks, and perhaps taking a MMPI once every three years. That is was law enforcement is required to do. Then allow those with a “Class A Carry License” have the same privileges as an off duty police officer.
When was the last time you heard of a off duty cop shooting up a room?
Why would we believe cops in school would make a diference?
We don’t elect Governors who balance their state budgets.
We don’t elect war heroes who know how to protect our country and have a foreign policy. And we sure don’t elect a rich businessman who has built businesses and hired workers and succeeded in the corporate world.
We have what we wanted. It feels great to listen to an empathetic man READ from a teleprompter or written speach created by a paid writer. He can even tell us who or what is to blame for everything. Praise him.
In Columbine the security guard missed his target. The motorcycle cop did not carry the weapon needed to get the job done and also missed his target.
The NRA is not advocating handing some person a gun and badge and stand them at the secure door of a school. TRAIN them, or use those who have devoted their lives to training and defending us.
I do not support the NRA but know they have more experience and knowledge than a congress woman who pointed at pictures of bad looking guns to ban under the Brady Bill. If you go to court you take an expert witness on your behalf. The NRA would qualify as such but just being anti gun doesn’t make you a gun expert.
Further more, ask LEOs what they guard their own houses and families with.
Ask what they train their families to do if alone when the bad guy shows up.
Ask them to lock their AR’s in the vault at work when done with their shift.
Why won’t you answer if our kids don’t deserve the same protection as some old men in Washington, or Des Moines or downtown C.R.? Why does the Secret Security carry guns? Why have they changed from M16′s to Bullpups? Ruh roh…yes there are some new weapons of defense out there that most anti gunners don’t even know exist. How can we ban the ones used after the next mass killing if we don’t know what it is? We had so many polls taken in the past two years, maybe we should pre poll mass murderers and get some answers and now. (now that is some crazy crapola) Having armed guards at secure doors, just like all courthouses, is not crazy. Keep the rhetoric up but calling it crazy isn’t going to make a solution that would work crazy. We have heard who is to blame so many times from one side that it is clear only they themselves believe their lunacy. Study the past or repeat it’s mistakes. God save us all!
The NRA shot themselves in the foot.
Cant get out of their own way.