Evansdale case spurs death penalty discussion: Your view
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A state lawmaker says he plans to introduce a bill to reinstate the death penalty in Iowa following the recent discoveries of the bodies of two missing girls.
State Sen. Kent Sorenson said he is looking to unveil the legislation in the session that starts in January.
Elizabeth Collins (left) and Lyric Cook-Morrissey.
The Milo Republican said the deaths of 8-year-old Elizabeth Collins and her cousin, 10-year-old Lyric Cook, have brought the death penalty issue to the forefront. Authorities say the girls’ bodies were found Wednesday in a wooded wildlife area about 25 miles from their hometown of Evansdale. They had been missing since July.
If the person who killed the girls knew he or she could face death if convicted, Elizabeth and Lyric might not have been killed, Sorenson said.
Someone who kidnaps or rapes “at that point has nothing else to lose,” the lawmaker said. “They’re going to face life in prison so they have no reason at that point to let (the victim) live.”
Gov. Terry Branstad said he supports the death penalty under certain circumstances, but it’s unlikely he’ll push for its reinstatement in Iowa.
“My position has been consistently, for the last 20 or 30 years, that if an individual is guilty of a crime such as first-degree rape or kidnapping and then murders the victim, so two Class A felonies … that is the limited instance when I think the death penalty could be appropriate,” he said during a Statehouse news conference Monday. “I also recognize the political realities, and under the present makeup of the General Assembly, that’s not likely to happen,” he said.
Iowa repealed the death penalty in 1965.
What do you think about the idea of reinstating the death penalty in Iowa, in light of the Evansdale case?
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How odd. We’re already talking death penalty and we have no cause of death for those children. We don’t know what happened to them.
Would it be at all possible to put down the pitchforks and torches until we get more information.
Besides, the threat of a death penalty wouldn’t have prevented the escalation of a serious crime to murder. People who commit murder in a situation like this don’t care about any death penalty. They care about getting caught. Therefore the imperative to eliminate any witnesses.
In fact in some cases it backfires. Like with Jetseta Gage. If Roger Bentley hadn’t killed her, it is highly unlikely that either he or his brother would ever have been brought to justice for sexually abusing the poor child for years.
If Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook were murdered, let the person who did it rot in jail. Some things are worse than death.
I knew this would get the bleeding heart libs going…bell is worried we don’t even know how these girls died…well it’s for sure they didn’t just walk there and kill themselves…these kinds of people are like chickin killing dogs..only death is the cure…there is no rehabilitation…who among us would rent an upstairs bedroom to those getting out of rehabilitation…look at the Jettseta Gage case…that guy should of never gotten out in the first place…the death penalty should work for that guy too…this is not about dems or republicans…this is about what needs to be done to stop these sick baztards…
Sorry to offend all the LIBS on here, but we never should’ve gotten rid of the death penalty.
No offense taken. Lots of CONS start to have second thoughts about the desirability of capital punishment when they stop and think about how long (decades) due process can take, and what the financial cost to the taxpayers is likely to be on a per-case basis.
One problem I have with the death penalty is that if it is justifiable, it is justifiable only when there is total certainty of guilt — beyond even the faintest shadow of a doubt, and that can be hard to establish. (Many have been convicted on the basis of “eye witness testimony” and eye witness has been demonstrated, contrary to “common sense”, to be unreliable. With the advent of DNA testing many convicted of crimes have been shown to be innocent. Some years ago the Republican Governor of Illinois ( a liberal ?) ordered executions ceased because he feared innocents were being executed.)
” many convicted of crimes have been shown to be innocent. ”
How many is many? There have only been about 20K people put to death as a punishment.
I said “convicted of crimes”, not “put to death”. How many of the “20K people” have been executed since the advent of DNA testing ?
“I said “convicted of crimes”, not “put to death”.”
Oh, I thought you were following the topic of the “article”. Sorry for asking what you thought “many” stood for.
“Some years ago the Republican Governor of Illinois ( a liberal ?) ordered executions ceased…”
Yes, a RINO. He is one of the two Illinois Governors currently in prison. Most suspect he was trying to get positive press (he even had his people talking up him getting a Nobel prize) to keep his own sorry butt out of jail.
Oh, don’t worry Jack, I know you were being flippant. Here’s an example where a guy looked it up before committing the murder.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/4828757-418/female-found-dead-in-oak-brook.html
Any time there is an horrific crime the “pro life” Republicans start beating the death drum. We are better as a society without state sanctioned murder.
“We are better as a society without state sanctioned murder.”
So, you’re for getting rid of abortion in most cases?
Here is a link to countries around the World that have and do not have the death penalty. Scroll down to the bottom to see the ones that still have it.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html
Here’s a link to countries that execute for lesser crimes against mankind, I dont see the relevence in the list……..or yours.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/10/the-seven-countries-where-the-state-can-execute-you-for-being-atheist/?tid=pm_world_pop
Since some are so interested, why bother with the courts at all, once they have been tried and convicted of the crime, release them; have Obama put them on his hit and kill them at will. It seems not enough people in power or the electorate care enough to stop him from violating our Constitutional right to trial as citizens, let him be the one to pull the trigger and avoid all the messy and costly hearings about “cruel and unusual punishment”. Just remember, the Constitution he is violating currently, is the one he is suppose to uphold and the same one all the rest in government are sworn to defend.
The subject is the possible reinstatement of the death penalty in Iowa.
I favor the Atticus Finch rule for the death penaty . Two eye witnesses testimony to trigger the sentence of death.
That would also require adjustments to the law, that would subject any witness found guilty of perjury, to be sentenced to the same punishment as those they testified against.
Also Death sentence cases should be tried and execution carried out in 12 months of apprehension. If that cant be done, life will have to do. For the death penalty to act as an effective deterrent justice must be swift and sure.
The appeals process is there for a reason — to insure the convicted received a fair trail and “no stone is left unturned”. There have been many convictions overturned on appeal. “Atticus Finch” predates numerous studies on eyewitness testimony. Here are just two sources, of many, of information on eyewitness testimony.
http://agora.stanford.edu/sjls/Issue%20One/fisher&tversky.htm
and
http://criminaldefense.homestead.com/eyewitnessmisidentification.html
By the way, are you in favor of significant increased spending to increase the size of the court system to reduce the backlog so justice can move more rapidly ?
You have apple v wheelbarrows. The links you provide are about a witness identifiying unknown persons by site. Not, for instance the terrorist shooting in Ft Hood, were the identify was know to lots of the witnesses.
Besides my minor adjustment in the law self corrects for your objection.
“yes your honor, the defendent, a person I have never seen before is the person I saw wielding the chainsaw”
“If your wrong and we execute him, that same sentence will be carried out on you, execution”
‘Well, I’m not that sure”
And then we would multiply that by two.
As far as the speedy trial, the number of 1st degree murder cases with two eye witnesses is so small as to be insignificant.The Ft Hood terrorist comes to mind. Thats a military trial and its carried on far to long.
let them rot. i can’t imagine a WORSE punishment than being in a cell (say even solitary confinement – no one talks or responds to you) for 23 to 23.5 hours a day. Can’t go for a walk, can’t enjoy a sunny day, can’t go to a movie, can’t order take out or delivery, can’t smell the flowers, can’t watch the animals and children play – i think that would be a fate worse than death. “The drip” is the easy way out. let them rot in a cell and let them live a long time so they can think about that every single day.
even if there were a 100% fool-proof way of making sure such a penalty were applied only to the ‘guilty’ and ‘deserving’, i’d still be against it on religious grounds.
besides – there is no evidence that capital punishment is a deterrent to any crime, and the cost on taxpayers is significantly higher to ‘kill’ them than to let them rot. the USA having capital punishment puts us on the same level as Islamic countries that have a ‘chop shop’. just as barbaric. just as senseless
I agree that setting in a cell the rest of your life might not be a neat deal…but how can you say with a straight face that killing them is more expensive than housing them the rest of their lives in prison…that’s just not true…barring all the appeals of course…but you have appeals in all cases..
Not believing a fact doesn’t invalidate that fact… In cases where capital punishment is sought, it adds from $1.5M (Utah) to more than $3M (California) to the base cost of prosecuting/punishing a given crime- that’s PER CASE!. Incarceration costs about $17K per person per year in Iowa… that’s $170K per decade or $850K for 50 years.
I suppose that it is possible to work out a table that would provide the best choice scenario for punishment costs. Teenagers sentenced to death would probably be about a wash regarding the cost of life imprisonment v.s. execution; but it would clearly be a money-losing proposition for the state to sentence anyone over the age of 40 to death (lifetime incarceration costs are inversely proportional to the convict’s age but execution costs are fixed). For a state full of cranky, gun-loving oldsters like Iowa, introduction of the death penalty would be a straight shot to financial ruin.
“there is no evidence that capital punishment is a deterrent to any crime”
Sure there is. I’m pretty sure that no murderer has ever murdered again after being executed.
Why let them off easy since nothing could be worse than an 8X10 foot room the rest your life. The death penalty has never been shown to have squat for a deterrence factor. It has been visited upon innocent people, and has a significant racial bias in application. It is the ultimate expression of a very poor justice system and has no place in any civilized society.
Iowa does it just right; put them in that tiny room with the sink/toilet and let them outside– alone– for one hour per week, just to make the cell all the worse.
Iowa does it just right? Didn’t you just build a nice, new, cushy prison with AC, central heat and a Starbucks on each cell block? Slap in HD flat screens in every cell like the libs tried to get away with in MN, and you wonder why these idiots don’t really care if they get caught or not!
” . . . HD flat screens in every cell . . . the libs tried to get away with in MN, . . . ” What is your (credible) source for that claim ?
Let’s get one thing straight, first it’s not a deterrence, it’s the punishment.
John: the ‘pro-kill’ crowd argue that having capital punishment either WOULD SERVE as, or IS a deterrent to committing the crime….that the would-be felon might NOT do the crime because he or she didn’t want to face “the drip”. There is just no evidence whatsoever that suggests the ‘fear’ of being put to death has caused a reduction in crime. There are just evil people out there that are bent on doing whatever they please, and do not respect the laws of society. Best thing you can do for these people is introduce them to an 8 x 10 hole, and leave them there. Most people by in large are not going to rape, murder, etc. Those that would do so, my argument would be are not going to be deterred by anything anyhow.
“nothing could be worse than an 8X10 foot room the rest your life”
What does my workplace have to do with this discussion?
But seriously, I’d like to take this opportunity to point out that before they receive their captial punishment, they DO get to spend the rest of their life in an 8X10 foot room.
YOu get 8×10??? I only have 8×8!
Branstad is right – the politics are such that the death penalty will not be reinstated in the foreseeable future. People who promote it are doing nothing more creating another controversial and divisive issue for the state that will be damaging to our state and waste a lot of time.
This will be a waste of time regardless of which side you are on.
Besides, life in general population is a much more fitting punishment for whatever animal killed those poor girls.
First sentence: Pretty much agree. Re ” . . . life in (prison) . . . much more fitting punishment. . . “: That depends on the individual. Research “Richard Speck” who was convicted of killing 8 nurses in Chicago. Indications are he rather enjoyed prison life.
“. . . animal killed those poor girls.” That, in the main, denigrates animals. That being said, I suspect if the individual(s) are ever caught it will be found they have some mental defect and/or suffered a very damaging childhood — not a “normal” person.
” life in general population is a much more fitting punishment ”
They’ll never put those dirtbags in GP, just like Sandusky isn’t in GP.
Ken: 100% agree. place the individual(s) responsible for the murders of these young girls in general population, and natural selection will run its course.
Kent Sorenson, according to his biography, claims to be “pro-life”, yet here he is promoting state-sanctioned killing. How twisted does one’s brain have to be to do the mental gymnastics necessary to reconcile being “pro-life” and pro-death” at the same time?
It starts with someone understanding responsibility. You know, “you do the crime, you do the time”. I realize a lot of LIBs love criminals and that’s fine with me, but don’t cry and moan when one of them is put to death for their actions. They were responsible for it.
As someone who had a family member murdered the individual got LWOP or Life Without as I like to call it. Now I have researched this and it is said to be the MOST effective way to punish someone. To sit with those thoughts day after day minute by minute the mental prison can be crushing. Now however, he has been on good behavior and was moved to a medium security prison (from Walla Walla) and just recently argued and was given the right to go to his mother’s funeral. Our family was angered because no one is letting my sister come down from heaven to see her 2 children get married (this occurred last year) and they CAN make the best of it. Hell he even got married and fathered children and the legal rights they have are ABSURD!!! So as someone with experience with the situation……I still go with Life without.
Whether or not Iowa reinstitutes the death penalty is a subject that doesn’t warrant the treatment that it is receiving here. Everything does not boil down to a lib or con issue and this is especially true of the death penalty.
Hopefully, those in our legislature will treat this subject with the seriousness and respect it deserves.
Mr Ellickson,
Couldn’t agree more.
I assume that this time around we’re going to find out yet again that we have legislators who don’t know that Iowa has a death penalty. It’s called life in prison with no chance of parole.The death penalty isn’t about prevention or justice or saving money. It’s about revenge. I get the feeling that some of the people posting here are so bent on revenge that they don’t care who it lands on as long as it lands on somebody.
Ms. Bell, Thank you.
It is very difficult to resist the urge to take revenge against people who commit crimes like this. I certainly would like to see whoever did this to these two children suffer greatly. That is why we need the law to temper these impulses and provide a process for ensuring justice. Or at least coming as close to justice as we can come.
Personally, I think it is a mistake to bring up a question of what justice means while we are influenced by such a horrible crime. Our definition of justice will be distorted by our outrage over this crime.
What makes the revenge motif even more disturbing is that there seems to be people out there who are exploiting this for their own purposes. I don’t know how many people posting here have a direct connection to those children, but my guess is none.
Roberta, that is because you are unaware (again) about the law and how it works. Capital crimes are crimes against the state. That is why when charges are read in open court they read ‘the state of Iowa v John Doe’. Murder is a crime against society (state) not a crime against the victim or the victims family or friends.
In short that is why it is a subject ripe for public discussion. Not knowing the victim is a feature of the discussion not a bug. It create a more dispassionate discussion not clouded by emotion.
One strong argument against the death penalty: If a convicted person is given life without parole and later evidence proves them innocent they can recover the remainder of their life. Not so if put to death.
Seems there are a few basic motivators for a penal system, Correction/Rehabilitation, Deterrence, and Punishment/Vengeance. We have to decide which of these to emphasize and which are of lesser importance (or even not necessary/counterproductive).
What are we really trying to achieve in our penal system?