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Updated: 19 June 2012 | 12:41 pm in Letters to the Editor
Wisconsin union voter put self above state
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Union workers in Wisconsin are saddened by the negative result of their attempt to unseat a governor who exercised fiscal responsibility for the benefit of their state.
What a sad commentary when a Wisconsin union member values selfish personal gains while his/her state was crippled by a multibillion-dollar deficit caused by union and political corruption.
Wisconsin voters have done our nation a wonderful service. If only the Republican elite would now join hands with the patriotic Tea Party movement, there could be a shining light at the end of our current tunnel of national destruction.
Bill Strilich
Marion
Rules of Engagement
Wisconsin union voter put self above state
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More anti-union rhetoric from inside the republican bubble.
Hey Bill, speaking of fiscal responsibilty, what are your thoughts on Romney’s new sugar daddy Adelson? 100′s of millions of dollars on anti Obama tax ads. If Romney was fiscally repsonsble, he would do like McCain said and decline the money. Think of the good that could be done with this money.
My, my…how wrong you are!
I left the Republican Party because they, like the Democrat Party, do not represent patriotic American thought.
Harold, since you chose not to objectively view my letter, Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, Obama, Van Jones, and Andy Stern would be very proud of you.
Oh, I objectively viewed your letter! Your points:
1) All unions are bad
2) Unions are communist: You and other right wing er’s usage of the term “communist” is really exaggerated and weakens your point.
The truth behind unions is that they helped build the middle class. With union workers earning “living wages” to support their familes, buy homes, and participate in the American Dream.
Walker’s removal of collective bargaining rights strips union workers to have any say in their benefits or wages. His goal: Make union jobs into minimum wage jobs with no benefits; all at the whim of corporate CEO’s. That’s his plan and you support it.
Harold, let us OBJECTIVELY view your thoughts.
Due to your inability to OBJECTIVELY analyze issues, you, sir, intentionally attempt to put words into my mind. I have NEVER indicated a hatred for unions. My beef with so many unions is that they are CORRUPT. (Now did I say all Republicans or corporations are not????) For once…PLEASE make an effort to understand the Union and Democrat politicians in Wisconsin caused the deficit they left for Walker.
If you chose to read ALL of my points you would find out that HISTORY tells us that Communist growth depends on the union movement. If you think this weakens my point…you do not understand my point.
Yes, I agree…unions helped build the middle class. So did the RICH who provided the jobs for the workers. As the unions grew more greedy and more corrupt they forced the job providers to leave the country. Not only that…they provide MONEY to the Democrat Party in order to obligate the Democrat politicians who will vote for union-backed corruption (like in Wisconsin). THAT, sir, is what offends me about today’s union movement.
Those who put words into your mind (and your ally, liberal media) didn’t tell you that the union workers in Wisconsin did not pay ANYTHING out of pocket for their perks like their counterparts in the private sector.
Now tell me, is the state of Wisconsin better off now that they are not saddled with such a HUGE DEFICIT??? Or are you more concerned about individuals at the expense of their state?
We rely on the news media to keep us informed. The news media is owned by incorporations. The incorporations have bought and paid for our politicians. So it’s the media’s job to keep American citizens divided. This way they can rob and loot the people and government at will. If you do not read the newspapers your uniformed. If you read the newspapers you are misinformed. Mark Twain
Francis, I totally agree with you.! Our two-party system works very well for lobbyists and politicians. They both work together and to Hell with the nation!
When it comes to the media….those who choose NOT to take in FOX because their ‘shepherds’ tell them FOX is bad. However, those same ‘shepherds’ will NOT tell them about NBC’s latest capers: Regarding the Zimmerman/Martin incident….MSNBC LEFT OUT a crucial part of Zimmerman’s 911 call. That omission left the viewers with the impression that Zimmerman was a racist. FOX NEWS played the tape in its entirety to reveal MSNBC’s overt act to tarnish Zimmerman. They also did the same thing to Romney’s words….they left out terms to make Romney look bad. Again, FOX NEWS set the story straight.
Can you imagine how our Founding Fathers would view liberal media’s biased cheerleading????!!!!
Mr. Strilich appears to be farther out of touch with reality with every right-wing LTE he writes. He has, apparently, not yet learned that those employed by the government receive, upon retirement, pensions that were negotiated and agreed upon in much the same manner as pensions received by anyone else. In many cases, civil employees have agreed to less take-home pay in order to increase their retirement income. I presume Mr. Strilich either receives or will receive a pension. I suggest he donate it in toto to the public coffers. How about it, Mr. Strilich? Maybe you could do the same with your Social Security and your MediCare benefits. You might then be a bit more credible.
Jon, the problem is when you have the union on one side of the bargaining table and people elected with the help of the union on the other side. The result is agreements that everyone knows are fiscally unworkable, but they agree anyway. In the private sector, companies don’t do that or they go out of business. What happens when a public sector employer makes agreements that would force a private company into bankruptcy?
When you have people who are supposed to be taking the side of the “employer” in negotiations but don’t, bad things happen. For example, take the Wisconsin Education Association (WEA). They created a group called WEA Trust that provides health insurance. And guess where schools ended up getting their health insurance for employees? The WEA Trust, of course. The only problem is taxpayers were being fleeced for millions in insurance costs over what similar plans cost from other insurers. Once the changes took place and WEA Trust had to compete, they suddenly lowered their prices. A lot. Even the Daily Kos had to report it and try to minimize damage.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/04/991248/-Wisconsin-Kaukauna-School-District
And some schools who saved hundreds of thousands of dollars because of this did crazy things like hire more teachers.
A lengthier, and probably more accurate description of the situation with the school district in question can be found in the local newspaper for that district: http://tinyurl.com/43ujuha
Moreover, your assumption that unions can, in fact, elect the majority of those who negotiate for the government with those unions is a statistical fantasy, given the small percent of the population associated with unions.
And it all sounds good. Deficit to surplus. Teachers rehired. Class sizes reduced. $300,000 in additional merit pay… Vacation time during the school year was cut, but otherwise…
And we both know its not the number of union members, its the money they put into elections. Just peruse the top 20 donors:
http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php
Over half are unions and almost all donate largely to Democrats (all of the union ones). Or does big money not influence elections?
And the recall election…? If you want to argue about money expended, then it needs to be the same argument on both sides of the fence. Mr. Walker and his henchmen are now claiming that the vast expenditures from the Koch brothers and their sleazy ilk had a minimal influence on his recall victory.
Moreover, of the 140 entities making major political contributions as identified by Open Secrets, I count 32 that can be construed as “unions.”
Mr Shotfeel,
You conveniently ignore the fact that the Chamber of Commerce routinely supports Republican candidates and that funds raised are routinely higher for Republicans than for Democrats and have been for decades.. Further, the Citizens United has opened the flood gates on private donations from people who are wealthy beyond obscene. There’s this casino mogul—Adelson I think his name is- who apparently intends to give the Romney campaign $100 million.
Unions act in my interests, people like Adelson don’t.
I’m wondering, could you have the decency to allow us tiny little not rich people not only the right but also the abillity to petition our government for what benefits us?
Jon, by your reasoning, thinking those other donors make a difference, “is a statistical fantasy, given the small percent of the population associated…”
Can’t you just admit _all_ big donors make a difference? That was my point. Let’s not pretend unions don’t make significant financial donations to politicians they think will do what the union wants. Because that is “fantasy”.
“Unions act in my interests, people like Adelson don’t.”
And other people feel just the opposite. Were the unions acting in the best interest of its members when WEA Trust was able to overcharge for health insurance, meaning less money for teachers? They acted against the best interest of their members in order it make money for the union itself. How, in a sane world, is that allowed to happen? If what they did isn’t criminal, it should be.
And as I’ve often said, I think the Citizens United vote was correct based on the constitution. But I don’t like what that big money can do to elections. So instead of whining about that case, why not work on a constitutional means to limit the impact of big money? I know Jon’s had some good ideas in this regard.
Tsk, Tsk, Jon….
Having read Shotfeel’s link and yours it is obvious which favors unionism and which favors patriotism. I have been in contact with Todd Arnoldussen and can appreciate their gains relative to Gov. Walker’s courageous stand.
Again…you ignore the theme of my letter: The union and Democrat politicians in Wisconsin obviously lack a concern for fiscal responsibility and for the citizens of Wisconsin – including the kids. Your Socialist or Marxist thinking lacks the realization that HISTORY has shown us that neither thought has worked as well as the one our president and unions are in the process of destroying.
Concerned patriotic readers can decipher your twisted words. Those of your ilk love to accuse your adversaries of the tactics you, yourselves, utilize. HISTORY also shows us Communism cannot survive without unionism. As Vladimir Lenin and Andy Stern said,
“Workers of the world – UNITE!” Then Nikita Khruschev’s words: “We will not bury you with a shovel….your own working class will bury you.”
When I take in liberal media (and I often do in order to compare) I learn the obvious:
The liberal media is a cheerleader for Obama and an adversary to free speech. Since you probably view MSNBC you are not aware of their manipulating the news about Zimmerman in the Martin death. You also are not aware of that media’s twisting Romney’s words. Tune in to FOX so can learn about FAIR and BALANCED News.
How about Nikita’s words: “The press is our chief ideological weapon.”
Anyone who reads this can go on line to verify the quotes. Let me offer two more:
“It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.” Joseph Stalin
This rings a bell when one thinks about the Minnesota Senatorial race or the Washington state gubernatorial election. Not to mention the work of ACORN in their corrupt election antics. Your media will not air the many states where ACORN is under investigation for voter fraud. They will also ignore ACORN’s role in promoting illegal immigration of underage prostitutes or their role in tax evasion advise.
How about one more quote: “Education is a weapon whose effects depend on who holds it in their hands and to whom it is aimed.” Joseph Stalin
Guess how American public education compares to that of so many foreign countries???
Thank you, Mr. Strilich. Rants of this sort-based in little, if any concept of our great country’s government or economy–are typical of your pronouncements, and are the reason why I can safely dismiss your ramblings out-of-hand.
Will: Why dont you call for Branstads pension to be renegotiated with the taxpayer in mind. ?? Maybe Bush and Cheney? Grassley (assuming he retires)?
No problem. In fact I don’t think Branstad should be able to “double dip” and I don’t think representatives who have to leave office due to abusing their position should get a pension.
And maybe renegotiating those things wouldn’t be a bad idea, since we should be doing it for Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid, and other entitlement programs. Our politicians shouldn’t be exempt.
Mr. Jones….your subjectivity shows. THINK!! You have been brainwashed into thinking all Republicans and all the rich are against the working man. THINK, man!!!! Go back to the Wisconsin situation and TRY REAL HARD to come up with the positive aspect of the Democrat legislature and Democrat governor leaving Wisconsin with a DEFICIT in BILLIONS…!!!! If you would venture into Iowa history you will find that following Branstad’s last stint as our governor….he left us with a SURPLUS…..COMPARE THAT WITH THE WISCONSIN DEMOCRAT GOVERNOR’S MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR HOLE…!!!
My goodness, man….WAKE UP…!!!
“The result is agreements that everyone knows are fiscally unworkable,”
MOST unions have had to CUT benefits in order to keep their jobs.
And leaving the fate of American workers and their benefits solely in the hands of corporate CEO’s always leads to outsourcing and dilution of benefits.
This union bashing republican rhetoric is all part of the TRICKLE DOWN ecomomic mentality of the Right: Accumulate wealth at the top and count on the mercy of coporate CEO’s to autonomously decide what wages and benefits workers get. Why is it that there is no talk of REDUCING corporate CEO bonuses, wages, and benefits??? The republicans always target the averge workers.
Jon…
A simple reply: Subjective loyalty to a political party diminishes that party’s ability to maintain the character of a city, state, or nation.
For your enlightenment..read my response to response to Deen.
Strilich: So whom do you think would make the best leaders? There is an election coming and I dont know who to vote for?
Please see my previous reply to you, Mr. Strilich. You continue to reinforce my conclusions.
I worked for a local company for 35 years. One of the benefits was health insurance that was partially paid premiums for that health ins and prescription coverage. After a few years in retirement the health insurance for retirees was dropped. When the Obamacare was signed by the president, within one year my Rx coverage was also discontinued. My Rx premiums with my new provider are 166% higher than before, and my out of pocket cost for Rx has increased 300%. Tell me again why Wisconson public employees should not be paying their fair share of their health coverage?
Mr Carpenter,
What was done to you with regard to your retirement health benefits was rotten. But taking health benefits away from other people is not going to help you. It’s not going to restore your health benefits to what they were,
Also, FYI, public sector employees pay insurance premiums and co-payments, and prescription drug costs just like everyone else. The exact share differs from state to state but benefit packages offered are public information and can be found on each state’s web page under Human Resources.
Plus if you are retired after so many years, you are probably old enough for Medicare. Which means you are getting cheap health inurance on my thin dime. So please stop complaining
My point ,Roberta was that the public sector should expect reductions in their benefits the same as we experience in the private sector. I know how much I? paid into SSA and medicare premiums in 35 years of working. Roberta, your dime has not been involved in my coverage. It’s still my dime. So until Walker stepped up, public employees premiums and coverage is NOT like everyone else!
Mr Carpenter,
I think your point is that you want everyone to be treated as badly and as unfairly as you have been treated and when everyone is as miserable as you are then you will be happy. I can make no other sense out of your obvious resentment of public sector workers..
Given that you are old enough to qualify for MediCare, you have health insurance and prescription drug coverage at a reasonable cost and nobody can take it away from you.
Except maybe Paul Ryan. But that’s another issue
Roberta, you’re still interpreting my words with your ideas, not mine. Public employees should not get preferential treatment beyond the private sector, if they are getting that special compensation it is just as likely it was accomplished through millions in contributions to the law makers.
“Given that you are old enough to qualify for MediCare, you have health insurance and prescription drug coverage at a reasonable cost and nobody can take it away from you.”
Your assumption of “reasonable cost,”
Didn’t you read my post? “nobody can take it away from me,”
There is the Obamacare plan that proposes to take away 500 billion dollars in medicare benefits, or is that another one of your pipe dreams? I made my comparisons, My goal is not to have you share my misery, based on your comments you are already miserable on your own! My health care costs went from a out of pocket of approximately $3000 in one year to $16,000 the next year.
Oh boy. Here we have a self identified Tea Party Republican (where did he get the idea that Republican “elites” have not joined hands with the Tea Party?) advocating that the individual sacrifice for the sake of the State?
Where have I heard this kind of talk before?
“Where have I heard this kind of talk before?”
Mostly from Democrats talking about the need to raise taxes.
Actually, Mr. Shotfeel, what I had in mind was something a bit more sinister. And I think you know what I was tallking about
The way our system was designed to work is that people elect other people to represent their interests. We are not subservient to the State; the State is subservient to us in that it derives its power to govern from the consent of the governed. That’s us. The government is there to provide goods and services that the private sector either cannot or will not provide–like fiber optics and the R&D that went into producing that computer you are using to denounce the government. Stuff like that costs money and we pay for that through taxes.
For Mr Strilich to advocate that ordinary little people like us gladly surrender our interests to the interests of the State (ill defined) is kind of creepy. And to blame public sector workers—-whose incomes are not that extravagent, you can check their salaries on line—is just plain silly. Blaming police, firefighters, teachers, clerical workers, maintenance staff, the guys who pick up our garbage for the financial mess we’re in is monumental in its sheer stupidity. Reducing these people to destitution is not going to solve our problems.
Yes, I understand the more “sinister” connotations of what you wrote, which seemed a bit over-the-top to me, which is why I replied in an (admittedly) sarcastic manner to try to point out that everyone seems to be demand everybody else make a sacrifice “for the sake of the State”.
But as an aside, every time I see the government implement something like the Affordable Care Act, with the mandates and other provisions, as “surrender(ing) our interests to the interests of the State”. And that’s creepy to me.
Tsk, tsk…Roberta….As I have stated…I am NOT a Republican!
When I OBJECTIVELY take in liberal and conservative media I cannot find evidence of the ‘support’ the elite Republicans show for the Tea Party Movement.
Do yourself and your nation a favor….start to view political issues OBJECTIVELY.
Roberta, always referring to Republicans and the Tea party as the bad boys and girls in our country. Never recognizing those traits in her own view of socialist democrats!
Mr Carpenter,
I can understand why you would feel that I think Republicans and Tea Partiers are bad girls and boys, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how it is that I also think “socialist democrats” [sic] are also bad girls and boys without recognizing that I think that.
Mr. Strillich,
It seems like your LTE contains even more less than factual statments than your recent guest column which is disconcerting seeing as how you have 350 words less to misinform.
Do you think Walker’s cuttng corporate and individual taxes immediately upon entering office had NOTHING to do with budget deficit?
Can anyone else but Tea Baggers be “patriotic”? The “patriotism” exhibited by too many baggers who call for violent overthrow of government does not seem too patriotic, to me.
I pray to God that not too many of the students you taught for 40 years actually listened to the hate/anger you consistently spew.
I will be the first to admit that I, too, spew some of that venom, on occassion, but I was never a teacher who is to lead young minds.
No wonder, apparently so many think Faux Noise actually reports and not misinforms, which is why their viewers are consistently the least informed of any media enterprise as evidenced by so many people on line.
Oh….Mr. Sass you could offer so much constructive thought to the survival of our nation via objective reasoning instead of letting others think for you.
Your second paragraph regarding Walker cutting those taxes….Man…don’t you realize Walker INHERITED the deficit???? Walker’s actions resulted in a govt. SURPLUS…GEEEZZZZ!!
Those who put words into your mind have obviously told you the Tea Party folks call for violent overthrow of the govt…!!! Now, Mr. Sass….Please take an objective view of the W.S. Occupiers and compare them with the QUIET, CLEAN Tea Party Folks….
You obviously enjoy ridiculing me about my teaching even though you know nothing about my teaching. Tsk, Tsk…. My hate and anger…??!?!?!
Mr. Stilich,
I appreciate you not being more angry at me for my tirade. I would have deserved it. I had no right to bring your teaching into account, since as you rightly state, I have no idea what/how you taught.
But I still have a great many issues with your commentary as you have with my commenatry.
In the immortal words of Rodney King “Can’t we all just get along?”
Unfortunately with all the partisan “news” that is out there, I doubt we have much chance of that happening anytime soon. But..we can try.
Mr Sass,
There is no point in trying to get along with Mr Strillich. He’s made it very clear that if you do not agree with him 100% then you are not “objective” and that is ungood because Bill Strillich is 100% objective and is therefore the only person on God’s green earth who knows what that is.
Further Bill Strillich objectively believes—because it is true—that unions are bad because they are collective and their collectivity leads inevitably to communism which is ungood. And unions are especially bad in Wisconsin because they enable individual union members to put their interests above those of the state. Objectively speaking unions are bad because they are collective and communist and marxist and enable individuals to put their selfish interests—like having a job, earning a living wage, having something to live on when they get too old to work, having access to health care so they don’t die if they get sick—ahead of the interests of the state whose primary function, near as I can figure, is to not spend any money because spending money is the greatest of evils and a threat to our freedom and besides that unions are unpatriotic and only the Tea Party is patriotic and if only the Republlican elite—whoever they are–would only join hands with the patriotic Tea Party we could all join hands and sing in the sunshine of God’s Heaven forever and forever and forever.
Just be thankful that your only contact with this person are the letters he writes to the editor and just leave it at that.
Oh…Roberta….I do feel sorry for you…..your selfish self-concern outweighs the BILLIONS of dollars the union and Democrat politicians left for Gov. Walker and the people of Wisconsin. I sincerely hope that you would reconsider your values for the sake of your nation and NOT YOU. For the sake of nation, I hope those words sink in.
Roberta, You described many unions very well. I was a union member, union steward, and a company negotiator, during the 35 years with a local company. The union business reps and many members always indicated the company Many of those companies no longer exist. Not saying it was only the unions fault, but I definitely call up the phrase, “contributory negligence!”
Mr Carpenter,
I was not describing labor unions.
If you were a union member and a steward and a negotiator, and your union destroyed your company through negligence, then I can only conclude that it must have been your fault.
With all due respect, unions don’t run companies. Management (aka the business owners) runs the business. .And don’t give me this nonsense about how those awful unions bully the hapless bosses and force them to make bad management decisions. Unions don’t have that kind of leverage. And if you had been an active union member, as you claim, you would know that
“I can only conclude that it must have been your fault.”
I didn’t say I was a union negotiator. I didn’y say “my” company failed.
I didn’t give you “nonsense,” Ishared my observations. You are way to quick to ass-ume what your liberal mind dictates to you. My interpretation is that unions can “ruin” companies, but not without management caving to some demands. Remember my words “contributory negligence?”
My final words:
I sincerely hope the readers of these many comments can take the sage words of Joseph Carpenter to heart and realize the value of shedding subjective political thought. He offers an opportunity to realize the true meaning of Patriotism.
In concluding I will recap thoughts put forth by the selfish individuals who simply cannot comprehend fiscal responsibility as it applies to every city, state, and nation. These individuals will never admit that the vast majority of cities, states, and now our nation, that are corrupt and bankrupt, are controlled by the Democrat Party and unions..
• So many of the anti-Strilich writers would like readers to believe he is ‘out of touch.’ They ignore the many HISTORICAL FACTS he offers.
• Those writers choose to ignore HUGE DEFICITS in favor of union workers. They preach about the Republican RICH influencing elections, but ignore the FACT that 95% of union money goes to Democrat politicians. They also ignore the many states that are investigating ACORN’s role in voter corruption.
• They preach that unions act in their individual interest, but ignore the DEFICITS resulting from ‘taking care’ of the workers. In other words….To Hell with anything non-union including cities, states, and our nation.
• These sheep who follow Marxist and selfish thought ignore the many VERIFIABLE quotes of Communist leaders who openly tell us how they will destroy the U.S. Their primary tools are unions, education, and the media.
• These people also choose to ignore the Marxists, Communists, and Socialists with whom our president has surrounded himself.
In closing, let me state that the Marxists will succeed in destroying the nation created by our Founding Fathers because too many patriotic citizens choose SILENCE…as evidenced by these forty-plus comments.
FINIS!